MA_Marlins Online Squadron

Seeing as its been years since I've looked at.. or even tried to understand.. what's what in the latest technology etc... can someone stack me up with a system... ..

Thing is though... there are a couple of provisos...

It has to be a Shuttle / Intel ... and the graphics card has to be nvidia / agp.

So.. imaginary spends... which one would you get.. and what would you put in it?

Talking new cpu / new ram / new hard drives / the works here

I'm going to edit this back in here.. 'cos they deserve it. I took my orginal comment out to give them a chance... yet.. one of the original provisos was that it couldn't be from Scan computers

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sorry mai bad englich

If your having Scan trouble m8 head over to Hexus and post in the Scan Care forums bud...

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Play chess online

If you are going all out, don't bother with AGP anymore.. they are literally obselete.. PCI-E is the norm now.

What's your budget?

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Not a Rose Without a Thorn

OK.... let's think about removing the provisos and put an arbitary budget on it... I dunno.. say a grand? is that reasonable? I'm not really sure how much things cost

In fact, thinking about it... maybe it IS time to get a larger box..

I'm happy with Intel / Nvidia and Maxtor ....

Hmm...

OK... here's the spec then...

1. Under a grand (flexible)
2. Intel
3. Nvidia
4. Maxtor
5. To go with my LG L1717S Monitor
6. Headphone sockets on front

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sorry mai bad englich

Tbh, if you went AMD you'd get more bang for buck.

But anyway, a grand is plenty..

Completly new:


Shuttle XPC SD37-P2 £315 (one sexy mofo)
Intel Pentium D 945 2x3.4 GHz £102 (OEM)
1Gb Corsair DDR2 PC5300 (667), 240 Pin £96 x2 (£192)
160 Gb Maxtor 6G160EO DiamondMax Plus 17, SATA300 £32 x2 (£64)
512MB XFX 7950GT XXX, PCI-E £246 (one absolute monster of a card!)

Total: £919

all from scan.

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Not a Rose Without a Thorn

ok excellent.....

I'll just read up some about that lot....

... and if I were to go the tower / midi tower or whatever approach?

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sorry mai bad englich

If I were you i'd skimp a little more on the GPU and get a conroe-based core2 duo. Frankly your spoiled for choice in terms of cases, though i'm probably not in the best position to advise since mine is a 18kilo server tower

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Nuttier than a squirrel turd.

wtf is a conroe based core2 duo lol

that a super dooper fast processor or something?

The more I think about it.. the more I like the idea of having a tower PC.. even though I just read a review of the Shuttle XPC SD37-P2 at Suddhian and it does look rather sexy........plenty of room for expansion and stuff... so I guess. I need a motherboard and other stuff...

when I say a tower... I mean a normal looking PC with lots of space inside it for stuff

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sorry mai bad englich

Nuts is right....ge the CPU right first for IL-2. Conroe, if affordable....rocks.
and for SFF its a very good idea.
Graphics are secondary right now. They all look nice

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War Games: The genre closest to perfect and yet furthest from it too. IL-2, ARMA2, Call of Duty.. the list of close to ideal and far from perfect is eternal...

I'm not so hot on towers/midi's and mobo's anymore. Shuttles ftw.

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Not a Rose Without a Thorn

This is a conroe doobrey:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6700, Socket 775, 2.67 GHz, 1066MHz FSB, Conroe Core, 4MB Cache, Retail £348.49 from Scan.

or you can go insane and get:

Intel Pentium Extreme X6800, Socket 775, 2.93 GHz, 1066MHz FSB, Conroe Core, 2x 2MB Cache, Retail £643.30

and cry when the price halves next month.

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Не роза без шипa
Not a Rose Without a Thorn

.. basic question....

Intel Pentium D 945 2x3.4 GHz

Intel Core 2 Duo E6700, Socket 775, 2.67 GHz


3.4 is bigger than 2.67 yeah? and therefore faster ? ,,( you know.. does more things per second - that's what a Hertz is right?) and am I right in assuming that in both of these there are 2 processors running in tandem or something..

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sorry mai bad englich

No not faster, lots of internal changes between the Pentium D's and the Conroe based Core 2 Duo's.

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Play chess online

Personally i'd go for the E6600, you can easily overclock that to match the performance of the next CPU up in the range.

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Products ... bnails=yes

You can see a comparison here of the difference in performance between conroe and the Pentium 4.

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=6184&page=7

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Nuttier than a squirrel turd.

Nut's is right again. 6600 is the best value by miles and goes like a freight train.

The thing is you're gonna need all new ram as well as card.

It's why Dakky and Dangy upgraded to A64 for such little money. But Iknow your hatred for al things AMD and to be fair, you want SFF< and AMD just aint it.

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War Games: The genre closest to perfect and yet furthest from it too. IL-2, ARMA2, Call of Duty.. the list of close to ideal and far from perfect is eternal...

Sorry, don't understand this bit...

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sorry mai bad englich

Just to bump my last reply...

I have said that I dont mind whether its not sff.... yet I think I would prefer it.

I'm talking a brand new system completely here.... so, new RAM is a must

And i dont really understand what you mean by this Zakky

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sorry mai bad englich

SFF seems to better catered for by Intel supported chipsets at the moment.

Also, having spoken to you several times about this, you dolove the ultra stability that Intel seems to come with. There are often compatiability issues with all sorts of mobo, cpu and card combo's but more often with AMD than Intel.

AMD A64 chips, however, offer very cheap upgrade solutions at the moment.


Yes, it is old technology now, and Core2Duo from Intel is faster, but for a lot of people (Dak, Dangly) the use of previous ram chips helps in the cost issue.

HOWEVER! You are gonna need new case and PSU too, unlike Dak, and while Dangly got a new PSU for the PCI express connectors and SATA connectors (as it was simply good value for hm at the time) , you're using a SFF that has no ability to be upgraded anyway.

SO.....as the MA-rlin who upgrades the least of all of us, I think you should get the best currently available and let it see you through a few years.

However, having said all of that, it seems that most SFF is still catering for P4, not Core2Duo.

So I'm stuffed on advice right now

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War Games: The genre closest to perfect and yet furthest from it too. IL-2, ARMA2, Call of Duty.. the list of close to ideal and far from perfect is eternal...

Reading Hats first post, it seems that he's happy to stray from the SFF genre, so lets get him the largest tower case out there.....

Mines so big I can kip in it when the wife kicks me out....

_________________

Monkeeees....Not just for breakfast...

Catch me in skype sometime Mr. G.

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Nuttier than a squirrel turd.

I know he doesn't claim to be bothered about SFF.....but if he gets a SFF he'll be happier.

I just know it

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War Games: The genre closest to perfect and yet furthest from it too. IL-2, ARMA2, Call of Duty.. the list of close to ideal and far from perfect is eternal...

OK.. this is getting urgent now.. especially if I want to have one set up for the lan etc.,...

(I'm having problems with my exisitng pc.. sometimes it takes 15 minutes or so to decide to turn on properly, so at the moment - I just don't turn it off)

Ive decided that this new one is going to be a Shuttle after all. (well.. maybe not )

So...

Barebones:

Processor:
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600, Socket 775, 2.4 GHz, 1066MHz FSB
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300, Socket 775, 1.86 GHz, 1066MHz FSB, Allendale Core, 2MB Cache, Retail **


Ram:
1 gig single stick (then another gig later)

1Gb CorsairXMS2 Pro, DDR2 PC6400 (800), 240 Pins, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 5-5-5-12



Hard Drive(s)
160 Gb Maxtor 6G160EO DiamondMax Plus 17, SATA300 (Is this 1 unit?)

200 Gb Samsung SP2004C SpinPoint P120, SATA300, 7200 rpm, 8MB Cache, 8.9 ms, NCQ


Graphics Card:
512MB XFX 7950GT XXX, PCI-E (x16), Mem 1600MHz, GPU 610MHz, 24 Pipes, Dual DVI/HDTV


DVD/CD read/write combo


Let's fill in the gaps, make adjustments and specify model numbers etc... so I can order one up today or tomorrow at the latest

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sorry mai bad englich

Yep card is Nvidia

And thats the only gap I can fill im afraid

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That drive is one unit. For a shuttle, get one of the following:

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=465724

(It has conflicting info on the spec list - spec sheet says pci-e 8, but title says pci-e 16 - but don't worry, it's pci-e 16.)
http://eu.shuttle.com/en/desktopdefault ... ead-13285/

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Not a Rose Without a Thorn

You can get a lovely little passively cooled edition of the 7950GT by XFX. That may be the one you're talking about up there, but i'd go for that.

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Nuttier than a squirrel turd.

OK.. Nearly there..

Would need to squeak a cd/dvd read writer, copy of xp, new keyboard and mouse on here too

Option 1(a) : Shuttle 1.86 twin core duo
Hard Drive: - £45.50
200 Gb Samsung SP2004C SpinPoint P120, SATA300, 7200 rpm, 8MB Cache, 8.9 ms, NCQ
Graphics Card - £228.88
12MB XFX 7950GT XXX, PCI-E (x16), Mem 1600MHz, GPU 610MHz, 24 Pipes, Dual DVI/HDTV
CPU - £115.45
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300, Socket 775, 1.86 GHz, 1066MHz FSB, Allendale Core, 2MB Cache, Retail
RAM - £110.03
1Gb CorsairXMS2 Pro, DDR2 PC6400 (800), 240 Pins, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 5-5-5-12
Barebones - £311.36
Shuttle XPC SD37-P2 Intel 975X, SATA300, IDE, x2 PCI-E 16,x4 DDR2, 7.1 Sound, 400w PSU
TOTAL 811.22 inc VAT

Option 1(b) : Shuttle 2.13 twin core duo (as 1(a), except)
CPU - £115.45
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400, Socket 775, 2.13 GHz, 1066MHz FSB, Allendale Core, 2MB Cache, Retail
TOTAL 847.33 inc VAT

Option 1(c) : Shuttle 2.4 twin core duo (as 1(a), except)
CPU - £208.79
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600, Socket 775, 2.4 GHz, 1066MHz FSB, Conroe Core, 4MB Cache, Retail
TOTAL 904.56 inc VAT

Option 2 - Small Form - not shuttle, buy case/mobo/psu
Mobo
Intel BLKDG9650TMKR i965, S775, PCI-E x16, DDR2 533/667/800, SATA II, SATA RAID, uATX, VGA, (OEM)

Option 3 Tower - buy case/mobo/psu
Case
PSU
CPU - £115.45
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400, Socket 775, 2.13 GHz, 1066MHz FSB, Allendale Core, 2MB Cache, Retail
Mobo
Graphics Card - £228.88
12MB XFX 7950GT XXX, PCI-E (x16), Mem 1600MHz, GPU 610MHz, 24
RAM - £110.03
1Gb CorsairXMS2 Pro, DDR2 PC6400 (800), 240 Pins, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 5-5-5-12
May get 2Gb... or just get 1Gb for now.. and another stick later..
DVD/CD Read/Write combo

I still might go this route... just get a basic midi tower thing.. but ffs I aint got a clue about which mobo or psu etc I should get here.. and am I supposed to buy cables and fans and stuff.. or do these come in the box? What should I get here?

Correct me if I'm wrong...

The way I understand it is that i dont need crossfire (cos not ATI), I dont need SLI cos Im only ever gonna use one gfx card, ought to be ready for quad cpu (is this important?) ... , gotta have on board 5.1 sound minimum, space for at least 2 x 1 gig sticks of ram (maybe more), gotta fit inside a midi tower.... and.. ermmm.... err.....

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Products ... bnails=yes

Oh yeah... and how do I get all the stuff off me IDE drives on to new SATA .. and is there a way to connect IDE and SATA to the same PC?

I'm currently favouring option 3 by the way .. sorry for bein a pain

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sorry mai bad englich

Most mobo's come with an EID port or two, because optical drives (CD/DVD) use them.

So you install XP on your new system, then plug your old IDE drive into the cable where the CD normally is, and copy across to your new PC

I would stick with SFF Hat.....I just know that, once you've got it built, you'll be happier with it.

You have never ever stopped talking about how pleased you were to have gone SFF

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War Games: The genre closest to perfect and yet furthest from it too. IL-2, ARMA2, Call of Duty.. the list of close to ideal and far from perfect is eternal...

that one....but with the thought that another 1 gig of ram would be a frikkin good idea.

As it's the best value set up, and will absolutely crap all over anything you've ever used anyway....I'd go with that one.

I'd also be a total tosser and suggest that you could nuke the 7950GT and go with a 7900 GS which, while not the DADDY, is still bloody amazing.

And at £140 instead of way over £200 I think you could then justify the ram.

Which, I state again, is a good good idea.

Dak has some of my ram at the mo, and I'm down from 2 gig. I shows in Q4 and FEAR and in loading times on IL-2.

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War Games: The genre closest to perfect and yet furthest from it too. IL-2, ARMA2, Call of Duty.. the list of close to ideal and far from perfect is eternal...

OK, I know this has all done your head in, and I've kept slightly distant from it because too much information prevents people making ANY decisions, and at the moment, you can't really go badly wrong, because there is no real crap on the market. It's all really good....its just, as you know, there's always the cream.

Shuttle is a good choice, specially with the 400w psu
You wont need or ever use SLi, so forget it, it's just there.

Graphics cards are all so much better than you currently have, that even a 6800 GT would make you drool.....but I think that, right now, in Nov 06, the 7900 GS is a proper value, hardcore card. If you vcan afford the 7950, it's worthy. The extra ram on board it is not really, but the speed of the thing is.

But I cannot begin to expand on how good it would be to get 2 gig of system ram.

Benchmarks are no use in this, as most benchmarks run within 1 gig, and some benchmarks prefer less ram (older 3d marks ran fastest on 512)

But in real life, in the world of IL-2 and teamspeak, and all the window stuff that runs, ....ram is king.

6300 is a great cpu, AND you might not even get round to overclocking it, though I think you will a little, as it's speed for free.

That shuttle has two internal drive bays I think, so an additional hdd in the future is fine. Samsung are good drives. Don't partition it. Leave it all as one large partition and defrag between install of XP, and of updates, and then again before game installs.

Me? I'd forsake the card, get the extra ram. On day one. But make sure it's in the right sizes (ie dont buy 4x512 if you've only got 2 slots)

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War Games: The genre closest to perfect and yet furthest from it too. IL-2, ARMA2, Call of Duty.. the list of close to ideal and far from perfect is eternal...

Sufficient RAM has been king for like.. ever, it's not a new thing to need enough RAM to give your CPU room to breathe.

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Не роза без шипa
Not a Rose Without a Thorn

so.. if I werent to go the SFF route, which mobo/psu should I buy ?

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sorry mai bad englich

Dependant on cash, either go for a board based on the Intel 965/975 chipset, if you got a bit more cash to spare you could go for one of the new nVidia 680i based chipset boards. As for PSU i'd seriously suggest NOT getting an "unbranded" PSU, go for one from the likes of akasa, seasonic, silverstone et al. 400W and up.

Intel-based 965/975: http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Products ... bnails=yes

nVidia based nForce 6: http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Products ... bnails=yes

Nice quiet PSU that I use (would compliment your fan-less 7950GT) http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=154679

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Nuttier than a squirrel turd.

Only thing I can say s to agree with Nuts re the PSU. My boy has gone through so many cheap ones and his current 550W crappy thing is not up to running his 7600GS.

I have been delighted with my Antec, (not sure I would go for Akasa), but Enermax, Tagan, OCZ etc all very good (but not cheap).

To widen your choices further (as if that needed doing ) i'd forgo the shuttle case and get that (I think) lovely looking sugo case we talked about. But you would have to make sure the mobo you buy is labelled "uATX", "mATX" or "microATX", you should be able to see the difference if they have a picture too


I think it looks great:

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=244420

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Nuttier than a squirrel turd.

Oh and as for optical drive, just get the latest NEC DVD Writer drive, will be approx £20.

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Nuttier than a squirrel turd.

There's a severe shortage of uATX boards on Scan but this one would be perfect:

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=499254

If you did go this route I'd suggest getting a modular power supply so you only use the cables you need.

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Nuttier than a squirrel turd.

I wouldnt spend that much on a gfx card tbh, I'd get the extra gig of RAM and then get a slightly lower spec card..

I'm still running on a mear 256Mb x800 card but have 2Gb o RAM and for BF2 the RAM makes more difference...

_________________
Play chess online

See if this takes your fancy bud, comes to £715.02 in total sans delivery, i'd go for it , i've asterisk'd where you've got tons of room for manoeuvre AND choice will make a large dent in price, but all of them are 'negotiable'. At the end of the day it's your choice though.

200 Gb Samsung SP2004C SpinPoint P120, SATA300, 7200 rpm, 8MB Cache, 8.9 ms, NCQ
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=260257
45.50

512MB XFX 7950GT XXX, PCI-E (x16), Mem 1600MHz, GPU 610MHz, 24 Pipes, Dual DVI/HDTV
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=488120
228.88 ***

Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 OEM, Socket 775, 1.86 GHz, 1066MHz FSB, Allendale Core, 2MB Cache, OEM
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=439209
111.50 ***

1Gb CorsairXMS2 Pro, DDR2 PC6400 (800), 240 Pins, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 5-5-5-12
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=255297
110.03 ***

SilverStone 'SUGO' Evolution SG01B Black Aluminium Small Form Factor Case
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=244420
87.53

Asus P5GZ-MX, i945GZ, S775, PCI-E (x16), DDR2 1066/533/800, SATA II, uATX, On Board VGA
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=499254
45.81

480w Tagan TG480-U15 EasyCon - 2Force Silent Modular PSU
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=241236
64.63 ***

NEC ND-7170A-0B Black x18 DVD±RW Dual Layer (with Ram Support ) DVD-Writer OEM UK
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=472130
21.14

Oh and you would need a fairly flat cooler, one of these MIGHT fit, though im not certain:

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=448654

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Nuttier than a squirrel turd.

Hat aint gonna Oc it so the RAM's over kill, anything PC2-4200 will do, the difference between that and what you have there will prolly allow you to get 2Gb, your under the prices he was on about so go 2Gb and have money left over to 2Gb and a faster CPU, I went 2Gb of PC2-5400 and an E6400

_________________
Play chess online

right.. thats a fantastic load of info. much appreciated.... lemme just sift thru all that

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sorry mai bad englich

how bout getting the retail 6400... would the default fan fit that sugo case ya reck? (compare to the 6300 for speed and oc ability)

I'm quite happy to buy 2 gig... yet think Ill just do 1 gig now.. and another some other time.

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sorry mai bad englich

I've got no idea, bear in mind that in that case the full-size ATX PSU sits right over the area the CPU is situated. Custom coolers are also usually more efficient and quieter too.

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Nuttier than a squirrel turd.

okies... I looked at that zalman.... but I wouldnt know how to work out whether it fits in or not

Unless I jsut get a midi tower thing.. then it'll fit no probs.....

Got to wait until mid next week now for purchase! Missed my window of opportunity Card limits and such. At least gives me a few more days !

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sorry mai bad englich

The interweb is your friend...

http://www.zalman.co.kr/product/cooler/ ... st_eng.htm

If not i'm fairly certain somthing like this will fit:

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=383042

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Nuttier than a squirrel turd.

Should I be worried about cramming everything in then? e.g. With the full size psu, would there be enough for another harddrive ... and/or that graphics card?

There's just too many options.

By the way, I am quite ok about using a midi tower if theres a relevant mobo/case in stock come next week

My current list is....

LN11657
200 Gb Samsung SP2004C SpinPoint P120, SATA300, 7200 rpm, 8MB Cache, 8.9 ms, NCQ £45.50
LN16431
512MB XFX 7950GT XXX, PCI-E (x16), Mem 1600MHz, GPU 610MHz, 24 Pipes, Dual DVI/HDTV £228.88
LN11594
2 x 1Gb CorsairXMS2 Pro, DDR2 PC6400 (800), 240 Pins, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 5-5-5-12 £220.05
LN11326
SilverStone 'SUGO' Evolution SG01B Black Aluminium Small Form Factor Case £87.53
LN16632
Asus P5GZ-MX, i945GZ, S775, PCI-E (x16), DDR2 1066/533/800, SATA II, uATX, On Board VGA £45.81
LN11321
480w Tagan TG480-U15 EasyCon - 2Force Silent Modular PSU £64.63
LN15922
NEC ND-7170A-0B Black x18 DVD±RW Dual Layer (with Ram Support ) DVD-Writer OEM UK £21.14
LN15048
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400, Socket 775, 2.13 GHz, 1066MHz FSB, Allendale Core, 2MB Cache, Retail £150.86
LN8359
Logitech Ultra-X Media Black/Silver Keyboard OEM USB £14.32
LN2895
Microsoft IntelliMouse Optical, 800 dpi, PS2 USB 1.1/2.0, 5 Buttons, Ivory/Silver £10.69
LN16642
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition SP2b OEM Single Pack w/Ugrade Coupon to Windows Vista £57.81
LN9296
Belkin SurgeMaster 5 Socket Switched Surge Protector inc Phone/Fax/Modem Protection £5.86
LN4200
Nisis Easypen G3 USB Graphics Tablet (6" Active Area) inc Cordless Mouse & Pen £17.61

Comes to a total of £985.77 - pretty much bang on budget

Yet have noted Trigs comments about the RAM, I just havent checked the price difference yet - and also there's no custom cooler on there atm.

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sorry mai bad englich

I'm on a 6400 with the stock cooler, its sat at 37oC atm 10oC hotter than room temp...

oh yeah btw...


GET 2Gb!!!![/url]

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Play chess online

you running that in a sff trig? [/url]

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sorry mai bad englich

nah, been on a propper pc now for a while, the shuttle has been religated to sitting under the TV in the living room for me to watch all my stuff on.
Just need to get a card that outputs hdmi now and it'll last a few years yet

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Play chess online

No I shouldn't worry about that, it's only a tight fit as the PSU sits right over the area where the CPU is, HDD's and GPU's shouldnt be a problem. This should fit fine: http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=383042

You can get a black/silver version of that mouse too that will better suit your case/keyboard http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=417262

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Nuttier than a squirrel turd.

Most swish I had my eyes on that, but it's on pre-order atm... maybe next week it wont be. I just didn't want the whole order being held up while they wait for a mouse to come in . and a different USB number -- does that matter?

Right... so it looks like I'm nearly good to go for next week. Couple of final questions.

The RAM.
I'm going to get the 2 gig now. But have also decided that I am going to get another 200 Gig hard drive and the Zalman. Now, what are the downsides of dropping(?) the RAM spec to PC2-5400(?) as per Trig's thoughts. I'm assuming this RAM is cheaper. Or to put it another way - what's the advantage of getting the PC6400 (800)

Other bits.
Am I going to need to buy cables/thermal paste/ nuts and bolts and stuff like that? Or do they all come with the necessary ingredients.

Cheers

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sorry mai bad englich